shoulder=left, right or both plus + shoulder:bicycle=yes seems to work well for me so i will start mapping those
To Tordanik and nevw,
If you can come up with a consistent standard regarding paved shoulders that would be great. Currently in the USA <cycleway=lane> is all we have and that is how we currently designate paved shoulders to make the renderings come up correctly. I check the results with the current cycle map mention earlier in this forum by marczoutendijk. I know that the current designation is far from perfect, but it is better than nothing at all. Please create the new standard and publish it. Every Bicyclist in the world will be very happy.
California RoadRunner
I found a proposal dated 08/01/2010 The wiki discussion is.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shoulder
The proposal seems to have gotten lost, since no action seems to have occurred.
Can the proposal be reviewed, because the designation of shoulders on USA roads are of extremely importance to all cyclists in the USA.
California RoadRunner
The reason why cycle features on USA roads haven’t been mapped is that people from the USA haven’t had chance to map them yet - I’d say you were in the best place to fix that!
Whether “cycleway=lane” or some sort of shoulder tag is more appropriate I’d discuss with other local mappers (though finding some your side of the bay might be tricky). However, the time-consuming part is the survey+mapping part - changing the tags afterwards (if required) is easier.
Don’t worry about the status of any previous proposal - just try and fit with how people locally tag things.
To SomeoneElse,
I guess you are right, apparently there was little interest in establishing a usable standard, first proposed 5 years ago. Since that is the case, I will proceed with the Designation <cycleway=lane>, that is currently being used, since it is better than nothing at all.
California RoadRunner
For those of you that are interested. I just added <cycleway=lane> to the Silverado Trail from Napa, Ca. to Calistoga, Ca. I have a direct link to my YouTube channel for those of you that want to see what it is like to ride a bicycle on the Silverado Trail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lmxxZEb_jk
It looks like I’ve got a lot of work to do. I sure could use some help.
California RoadRunner
I hadn’t noticed the following on the key=cycleway page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway
cycleway=shoulder
Used in Australia for shoulders that are navigable and legal to cycle on, where a high-speed road is legal but not useful infrastructure
I hadn’t noticed the following on the key=cycleway page for my country http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway
cycleway=shoulder
Used in Australia for shoulders that are navigable and legal to cycle on, where a high-speed road is legal but not useful infrastructure
So for Aust mappers this tagging would be preferred for now I suppose as the tag can easily be altered later if further discussion results in better tagging.
To nevw
Apparently this tag is used in your country only, but no where else in the world. Such a shame that it wasn’t adopted as a worldwide standard, years ago.
" <cycleway=shoulder> - Used in Australia for shoulders that are navigable and legal to cycle on, where a high-speed road is legal but not useful infrastructure"
California RoadRunner
Perhaps it should start being used world wide. . . You could introduce the cycleway=shoulder to the US.
Makes more sense to me than tagging a road shoulder as cycleway=lane as a cycleway=lane should be separated, at least with paint, from automobile traffic and should have bicycle icons on the pavement.
There have been a number of people active on the talk-us OSM email list working on bicycle routes in the US. Might be interesting for you to contact those parties and find out what they have been doing.
And what about the access rights to the shoulder? Bicycle only? Or also pedestrians, mopeds, oxcarts, …? In Thailand, many bigger roads have shoulders, and if they are present, bicycles and mopeds have to use them instead of the main lanes, but they can be used by just every type of transport. Hence I prefer shoulder=yes. When you create your map, you can render it like a cycleway.
Hello Everyone,
I want to thank everyone for their comments. I have concluded that the tag <cycleway=lane> is the correct tag to use for now, since this is the tag currently use by most OSM cartographers. The reason is that in the USA, we have been an automobile based society and that our roads have been designed for the automobile with little regard for cyclists. In light of this fact, cyclists in the USA, consider paved shoulders as cycleways. The reason why is our current paved shoulders are being designated as cycleways by our cities, counties, and states to meet federally mandated requirement that bicycle lanes be created in order to receive federal highway funds, failure to do so will result in the loss of federal funding. In California, over the past few years, I have seen a large number of paved shoulders, marked with bicycle lane signs and bike lane logos painted in former paved shoulders. “Paved Shoulders Today, Bicycle Lanes Tomorrow”. In my original opening message in this forum, I stated that all cyclists consider paved shoulders as bicycle lanes. I would like to call on all OSM cartographers to add to all highways with paved shoulders the tag <cycleway=lane> until such time when a worldwide agreement upon a tag regarding paved shoulders is created and adopted.
California RoadRunner
Actually, I fail to see, how one can differentiate an ex-shoulders cyclelanes from two newly built oneway cyclelanes or cyclelanes built grom autolanes narrowing, unless you know the history of the place.
cycleway=lane for a shoulder that can be used by cyclists would not fit the use in many European countries. In particular in Italy we use cycleway=lane for official cycle paths that are lanes on the road AND that have a cyclepath sign (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fig.59-Pista_ciclabile-_1959.svg). For that reason I would prefer strongly a different tagging for shoulders that can be used by bicycles, but are not exclusively for cyclists. I think one of the main differences is that cycleway=lane excludes pedestrian use.
First of all - great to see an ambition to map these shoulders… long overdue.
Please use cycleway=shoulder. It has precedent in Australia and “does what it says on the tin”.
Please, please, please don’t use cycleway=lane. This is for a dedicated cycle lane and has characteristics that might not be shared by a shoulder: likely to have priority over side roads, swept/de-iced as part of the main carriageway, non-cycle traffic prohibited.
We have an infinite tagspace - for something with so many uses across the world it would be foolhardy to shoehorn it into an existing tag. As someone who runs an OSM-based cycling map and router (cycle.travel/map) I’m very happy to support cycleway=shoulder. Repurposing cycleway=lane would make it harder for me to provide accurate cycling mapping and directions.
To Richard,
I agree with you completely on that the tag <cycleway=shoulder> is the proper tag to use on the vast majority of roads in the USA. We have very few roads in the USA, that are dedicated roads with protected cycle lanes as in Europe. Some of your cities are beginning to create the European model of a dedicated cycle lane as described in the wiki tag <cycleway=lane>, but it is still in its infancy. I have started a dialogue with talk-us@openstreetmap.org. For those of you that wish to follow the dialogue you can go to the daily archives @ http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/
I am calling on everyone to establish a published wiki tagfor Paved Shoulders.
Larry-California RoadRunner
This link was provided by Thomas Roff.
I want to thank him for the information. This is exactly the type of information required to arrive at a world wide standard. The most important conditions are Code(2) and Code (4) pictures and Code (3) no picture but same as Code (2) Asphalt Type Road except that it is a Concrete Type Road.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/hpms/fieldmanual/chapter4c.cfm
Larry-California RoadRunner
I have been studying what Europeans consider as <cycleway=lane>. The European definition is a protected bicycle path separated by a barrier or an open space from a road. This is an American “Class I Bike Path” The term <cycleway=lane> in America means “Class II Bike Lane” which is a shoulder with a painted stripe or 2 painted stripes along the side of the road, with Bike Lane or Bike Logo painted on the shoulder or between the 2 painted stripes or a sign post “Bike Lane” at side of the road. I have checked the usage <cycleway=lane> in the USA and it is almost universally by current OSM cartographers in the USA to designate a Class II Bike Lane. The tag <cycleway=shoulder> is not correct either because of restrictions in the term cycleway meaning “bicycles only”. The American definition states that it is a shared lane with pedestrians in the one stripe situation. In light of these findings, I think we should rethink current practice. I am developing a possible new standards that will address these differences and not be in direct conflict with the establish European definitions. The new tags should not conflict with routing of the establish European tags, our current tags do conflict with the establish norm.
Larry - California RoadRunner
I admire your desire and the research you have been putting into this but suggest that discussion on changes or additions to existing tagging be addressed in the tagging mail list.
On the other hand, be prepared for a long haul with lots of “bike shedding” (I term I only learned about on the OSM mail lists) and frustration with the eternal debates that seem to happen on the mail lists.
To n76,
I have gone to the various E-Mail lists that you have mentioned and it seems that there is endless discussion and no results are ever achieved. In light of this, the simplest solution is to use the following wiki link and to substitute “shoulder for lane” and add <access=yes> to allow for motor vehicles, pedestrians and horses on the shoulders. Also “width<0.5” for the narrowest part of the shoulder or “width=>0.5”.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle
Larry - California RoadRunner