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#1 2011-07-10 21:16:43

Mr_Israel
Moderator
From: Israel, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-02
Posts: 509

public transportation in Israel

Hey Israeli friends,

I just realized that the websites openbusmap and openstreetbrowser is also available for Israel now.
That means that we have several websites showing the public transportations in Israel:

- http://www.openbusmap.org
- http://3liz.fr/public/osmtransport/
- http://dev.openstreetbrowser.org
- http://openmap.lt
- http://latlon.org/

Here are some cool examples of Beer Sheva of public transportation data in OSM:

http://3liz.fr/public/osmtransport/inde … er%20Sheva
http://www.openbusmap.org/?zoom=15&lat= … &layers=BT
http://openmap.lt/#l=31.25087,34.78738,14,MT
http://latlon.org/pt?zoom=14&lat=31.248 … ayers=B0FT
http://dev.openstreetbrowser.org/#?zoom … &overlays=

########################################################################

The only thing missing is still a map that is using the English translation to show the public transportation.

Last edited by Mr_Israel (2011-07-13 09:14:07)

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#2 2011-07-11 10:59:33

Mr_Israel
Moderator
From: Israel, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-02
Posts: 509

Re: public transportation in Israel

BTW: If there is anybody traveling by train in Israel - It would be great to add the train (number) relation to the great rail network we already have in Openstreetmap.

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#3 2011-07-11 13:16:14

Re: public transportation in Israel

Mr_Israel wrote:

BTW: If there is anybody traveling by train in Israel - It would be great to add the train (number) relation to the great rail network we already have in Openstreetmap.

Here is the source: http://rail.co.il/HE/Stations/Map/Pages/RouteMap.aspx

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#4 2011-07-11 14:49:10

Mr_Israel
Moderator
From: Israel, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-02
Posts: 509

Re: public transportation in Israel

cool. They also have a English version: http://rail.co.il/en/Stations/Map/Pages/RouteMap.aspx

Already added the route between:

- moddin and nahariyya
- Haifa and Kiryat Motzkin

Last edited by Mr_Israel (2011-07-11 18:05:52)

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#5 2011-07-12 09:42:33

Re: public transportation in Israel

I just added the Dimona => Be'er Sheva route.

Relation tags, copied from Mr_Israel's relations:
color = yellow
from = Dimona
name = Train: Dimona => Be'er Sheva
operator = Israeli Railways
route = train
to = Be'er Sheva
type = route

A train station has "stop" role in the relation. A rail way has "forward" role for a unidirectional relation, or "route" role in a bidirectional relation.

Do we really need two relations, one for each direction? Or can we have one for both?

Mr_Israel, there are some rail ways in the Modi'in/Nahariyya route that do not have the "forward" role in their relation.

Last edited by adrukh (2011-07-12 09:52:04)

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#6 2011-07-12 10:25:02

Re: public transportation in Israel

adrukh wrote:

Do we really need two relations, one for each direction? Or can we have one for both?

Since we have many oneway railway lines (i.e. double tracks) and railway stations should be a node on a railway line,
then maybe it would be better to have only one relation per "route" (e.g. Nahariya-Modiin) and add both lines to it.

It might also be a good time to add oneway=yes wherever there are oneway lines (e.g. along TelAviv-Haifa)

talkat.

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#7 2011-07-12 11:14:50

Mr_Israel
Moderator
From: Israel, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-02
Posts: 509

Re: public transportation in Israel

Hmm.... I have just came to Dimona => Be'er Sheva route woundering who added it smile



++++++++++++++UPDATED ++++++++++++++++++

Regarding the relations:
I have checked several trainstations in Germany realizing that they are using two relations for trains and just one releation for public trains inside of the city.
In UK they are mostly just using one relation. So we can define it the way we want it to be and add it here : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Train_routes


We just have 7 routes, this would mean we talking about 14 releations, what is not a lot for a whole country.
Of course this makes more work for us but in this case we can define the "from" and "to" correctly.


@talkat: I don't think we need oneway=yes on train routes. I think that the "forward" definition should be enough and is also rendered like a oneway on openbusmap.org.
Example: http://www.openbusmap.org/?zoom=16&lat= … &layers=BT


I will stop the mapping for now till we decide how to map it equaly.

Here is something to read about routes (I can't find a answer on our question):
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route

Last edited by Mr_Israel (2011-07-12 11:44:12)

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#8 2011-07-12 12:20:27

Re: public transportation in Israel

Mr_Israel wrote:

Hmm.... I have just came to Dimona => Be'er Sheva route woundering who added it smile

Must admit - I chose the easiest one smile

Mr_Israel wrote:

Here is something to read about routes (I can't find a answer on our question):
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route

This page states that for stops, "The order of the members in the relation should identical to the order in the timetable." When I look at the Modi'in/Nahariyya route relation, I see unordered stops (Pa'atei Modi'in is between Tel Aviv Center and Atlit, etc). Does this mean their order in the relation in not correct?

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#9 2011-07-12 12:26:12

Mr_Israel
Moderator
From: Israel, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-02
Posts: 509

Re: public transportation in Israel

Ok... here we go:

The actual Oxomoa/Public transport schema says:
"Each direction or variant of a route is represented by a separate relation."
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User … ort_schema

You can find here the full description:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Prop … .2Fvariant


Additional to that, there has to be a "Route master":
"The route master is a relation that contains all the direction and variant routes and the information that belongs to the whole service."


Anybody against the Oxomoa schema?

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#10 2011-07-12 12:40:56

Mr_Israel
Moderator
From: Israel, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-02
Posts: 509

Re: public transportation in Israel

@adrukh: Of course it can happen that I missed a stop and added them later, but I hope its not a issue.
But if I understand the websites correctly you are right that they should be defined in a order.

So I don't have a answer if we should change them or not.

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#11 2011-07-12 13:16:50

Mr_Israel
Moderator
From: Israel, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-02
Posts: 509

Re: public transportation in Israel

Current Status:

#### ALL Finished ####

All of them having a route_master and can be identified to be just one line.

Jerusalem Malha => Tel Aviv Center Savidor (1660971) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1660971
Tel Aviv Center Savidor => Jerusalem Malha (1660972) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1660972

Hod HaSharon- Sokolov => Rishon LeTsiyyon HaRishonim (1660380) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1660380
Rishon LeTsiyyon HaRishonim => Hod HaSharon- Sokolov (1660381) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1660381

Binyamina => Ashkelon (1659773) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1659773
Ashkelon => Binyamina (1659774) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1659774

Nahariyya => Be'er Sheva (1659746) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1659746
Be'er Sheva => Nahariyya (1659747) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1659747

Modi'in => Nahariyya (1659560) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1659560
Nahariyya => Modi'in (1659559) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1659559

Haifa => Kiryat Motzkin (1659754) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1659754
Kiryat Motzkin => Haifa (1659755) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1659755

Dimona => Be'er Sheva (1660319) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1660319
Be'er Sheva => Dimona (1660995) : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1660995

Last edited by Mr_Israel (2011-07-12 15:45:52)

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#12 2011-07-12 15:24:06

Re: public transportation in Israel

Mr_Israel wrote:

Current Status:

snip...


I'll do a report for a wiki list page.
Any objections?

talkat.

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#13 2011-07-12 15:27:03

Mr_Israel
Moderator
From: Israel, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-02
Posts: 509

Re: public transportation in Israel

what do you mean with objections?

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#14 2011-07-12 15:49:01

Re: public transportation in Israel

Mr_Israel wrote:

what do you mean with objections?

It was kind of a joke. :-)

I meant - Instaed of this info buried in the forum, it will be in the wiki, with links from Israel's wiki page.
Just like the forests list in the wiki.

It will also make it searchable by google, etc.

talkat.

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#15 2011-07-12 16:19:49

Mr_Israel
Moderator
From: Israel, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-02
Posts: 509

Re: public transportation in Israel

nothing against jokes smile

Do you think we should cooperate with Wikipedia in this topic instead of building a separated wiki for that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Railways

They have already a list of all train stations in there.

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#16 2011-07-12 17:04:35

Re: public transportation in Israel

Mr_Israel wrote:

Do you think we should cooperate with Wikipedia in this topic instead of building a separated wiki for that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Railways

They have already a list of all train stations in there.

If anything, then as a link in wikipedia, under "See Also", or "External links"

In my mind, the two wikis are complementary.

talkat.

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#17 2011-07-12 18:23:02

Mr_Israel
Moderator
From: Israel, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-02
Posts: 509

Re: public transportation in Israel

I found another website showing interesting details like public transportation for Israel:
http://dev.openstreetbrowser.org/

It is very updated and very good if you would like to add bus or tram ways and check if everything is connected.
I found several small and big mistakes in the train routes and fixed them with that tool.

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#18 2011-07-12 21:48:16

Re: public transportation in Israel

Turns out there are "stray trains", following routes not mentioned on www.rail.co.il! smile
For example, every morning you can catch a train from Modi'in straight to Hod Hasharon, without changing trains in Tel Aviv... 90% of the time during a day you will need to change trains, but not 100%.

Should such routes also be defined as separate relations?

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#19 2011-07-12 22:28:45

Mr_Israel
Moderator
From: Israel, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-02
Posts: 509

Re: public transportation in Israel

If we add those routes... they would have to have seperated relations.

But when adding those kind of routes there needs to be a way to separate those routes.
Currently I'm using color names as reference number. But there has to be some kind of official route number.
Would be great if somebody could do a small research in hebrew for that.

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#20 2011-07-12 23:24:12

Re: public transportation in Israel

adrukh wrote:

Turns out there are "stray trains", following routes not mentioned on www.rail.co.il! smile
For example, every morning you can catch a train from Modi'in straight to Hod Hasharon, without changing trains in Tel Aviv... 90% of the time during a day you will need to change trains, but not 100%.

Should such routes also be defined as separate relations?

I'm not sure that you should create a route for every variation, especially these early-morning/late-at-night samples.

As long as there's a route from Modiin to Tel Aviv, and another one from Tel Aviv to Hod HaSharon, means that a routing software could create a route to navigate by.


Suppose someone sees this straight route from Modiin to Hod HaSharon, and would like to use it - They will be a bit disappointed...

talkat.

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#21 2011-07-13 09:10:45

Mr_Israel
Moderator
From: Israel, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-02
Posts: 509

Re: public transportation in Israel

@Talkat: I disagree with you.
Of course they would be disappointed, but if you try to drive on Shabat with a bus you will be disappointed, too.
The same goes for night bus lines that are not driving the same route in the same speed daytime.

Before using OSM to route you through the country you will need a additional service, saying from when to when the routes can be used.

PS: I found even more website covering the public transport of Israel and added them in the first post.

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#22 2011-07-13 11:10:05

Re: public transportation in Israel

Mr_Israel wrote:

@Talkat: I disagree with you.
Of course they would be disappointed, but if you try to drive on Shabat with a bus you will be disappointed, too.
The same goes for night bus lines that are not driving the same route in the same speed daytime.

Before using OSM to route you through the country you will need a additional service, saying from when to when the routes can be used.

Night busses are not the same.
Usually they even have their own (ref) number.

If we add hours-of-operation, then I would feel better about these only-in-the-morning routes.

talkat.

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#23 2011-07-13 11:14:45

Re: public transportation in Israel

talkat wrote:

I'll do a report for a wiki list page.

Done.

talkat.

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#24 2011-07-14 10:36:04

Mr_Israel
Moderator
From: Israel, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-02
Posts: 509

Re: public transportation in Israel

talkat wrote:

Done.

talkat.


Is it also possible to add more information about those train routes to the wiki page?

- List of stops (this is way too much but interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: … _template)
- KM between stops
- KM of the full route


PS: Can you please link the names of the routes to the relation, so we will have more data connected.

Last edited by Mr_Israel (2011-07-14 10:40:12)

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#25 2011-07-14 11:53:03

Re: public transportation in Israel

Mr_Israel wrote:

Is it also possible to add more information about those train routes to the wiki page?

- List of stops (this is way too much but interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: … m_template

I will add the list of stops,
- KM between stops
- KM of the full route


PS: Can you please link the names of the routes to the relation, so we will have more data connected.

Cute that wikipedia template... :-)

There's a link on the relation id.
Note that there are small links next to it.
They let you analyze the relation in more detail.

Clicking on the small "a" you get the Relation Analyzer.
There you can see the length of the route, and even download gpx or kml files.

Clicking on the small "r" links to the Route Analyzer,
with similar data, and a visualization of the segments.

talkat.

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