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#51 2011-06-16 20:53:08

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

dimka wrote:
talkat wrote:
adrukh wrote:

Here are some more:
117745024
117744991
117745025
117745008
117744993
117745111

And several others in that area.

I can't say for sure, but it is possible that these are all parts of boundaries which are longer than 2000 nodes. In that case there is a split, and the other part(s) just haven't been uploaded yet.

Sounds unlikely, as these are closed ways, polygons.

It could be that KKL's source has these as errors, or they're a result of some rounding algorithm when you converted to OSM's coordinated?

talkat.

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#52 2011-06-16 22:18:03

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

talkat wrote:
dimka wrote:

I can't say for sure, but it is possible that these are all parts of boundaries which are longer than 2000 nodes. In that case there is a split, and the other part(s) just haven't been uploaded yet.

Sounds unlikely, as these are closed ways, polygons.

It could be that KKL's source has these as errors, or they're a result of some rounding algorithm when you converted to OSM's coordinated?

talkat.

If a source polygon has more than 2000 nodes on its boundary, this boundary cannot be represented by a single (closed) way in OSM, in which case there will be a split and the relation will take care of the connection.

I've checked the source of http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/117745023: turns out this is a "hole" in elyakim forest: see its counterpart http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/293395
In the original KKL shapefile there is indeed such a hole, so the problem starts there. I guess it is an error and not some physical feature. After the upload is finished, I'll ask KKL about those.

Last edited by dimka (2011-06-16 22:19:04)

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#53 2011-06-17 16:48:32

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

Due to problems, I have started to revert all the changes made so far.
The problem is that there was a gap between the upload of nodes and the upload of ways, during which some of the nodes were changed.
I have already removed all the ways, and now continue with nodes.

Afterwards I will do a clean import by small chunks, each of which will contain several forests in their entirety - i.e. relations and all the ways and nodes belonging to these relations.

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#54 2011-06-19 23:17:20

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

I believe all the changes are by now reverted (perhaps with the exceltion of ~1000 nodes which I couldn't track down yet).

Any comments/suggestions before the second attempt?

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#55 2011-06-25 10:12:00

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

I have started the second attempt. This time there are 20 smaller self-contained chunks.
The first one is already done:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/8539352

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#56 2011-06-26 21:11:09

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

I see the additions near Modiin! Cool...
Should we delete the old forests?

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#57 2011-06-26 22:18:02

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

Most editions are great!
In some places, though, like around the Canada park, the boundaries enclose open areas.
Do they describe KKL-managed areas? planned forests?

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#58 2011-06-27 11:59:40

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

Two issues that I noticed:
1. Boundary between Modiin forest and Ben Shemen forest - double nodes in vicinity of node 1338642702.
2. Node 1338697923 is shared by two ways in the same relation, which (I think) should be merged into a closed loop.

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#59 2011-06-27 12:29:31

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

I've added this to the wiki:
Main Israel wiki
And a sortable list of all forets.

talkat.

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#60 2011-06-27 12:37:20

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

adrukh wrote:

Two issues that I noticed:
1. Boundary between Modiin forest and Ben Shemen forest - double nodes in vicinity of node 1338642702.

The solution should be to reuse the same way in both relations. We do it in the administrative boundaries,
but the administrative boundaries are drawn by hand, and this is an automatic import.
I'm not sure it's feasible.
dimka should answer this.

adrukh wrote:

2. Node 1338697923 is shared by two ways in the same relation, which (I think) should be merged into a closed loop.

This is the case of a way with too many (more than 2000) nodes, that needs to be split into smaller ways.
The polygon algorithm takes care of it.
See more here

talkat.

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#61 2011-06-27 22:05:24

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

valleyofdawn wrote:

Most editions are great!
In some places, though, like around the Canada park, the boundaries enclose open areas.
Do they describe KKL-managed areas? planned forests?

The KKL guy indeed mentioned that the boundaries in the file refer to KKL managed areas, not necessarily real forests with trees.

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#62 2011-06-27 22:17:40

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

talkat wrote:
adrukh wrote:

Two issues that I noticed:
1. Boundary between Modiin forest and Ben Shemen forest - double nodes in vicinity of node 1338642702.

The solution should be to reuse the same way in both relations. We do it in the administrative boundaries,
but the administrative boundaries are drawn by hand, and this is an automatic import.
I'm not sure it's feasible.
dimka should answer this.

Hmm that might have been an oversight on my part. The script  (polyshp2osm) does not reuse nodes for different features (in our case forests), therefore the nodes get duplicated.

The import is slightly more than half way through, I will try to correct this through JOSM for the remaining data. As for what got uploaded

Hopefully the number of such duplicates is not large (this happens only in the case of two distinct forests sharing a common boundary).
I'll  make a list of such problematic forest pairs later. Then it shouldn't be too difficult to merge the duplicates manually (again through JOSM).

dimka

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#63 2011-06-29 13:45:33

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

dimka wrote:

The KKL guy indeed mentioned that the boundaries in the file refer to KKL managed areas, not necessarily real forests with trees.

I guess we should gradually correct this. Map readers would care about the actual land cover, not administrative jurisdiction.

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#64 2011-07-03 11:51:19

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

adrukh wrote:

Boundary between Modiin forest and Ben Shemen forest - double nodes in vicinity of node 1338642702.

See http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/1338815588 for more of this.

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#65 2011-07-06 22:55:24

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

Hi all,

the import of the forest dataset has been completed. Several problems have been encountered (mostly duplicated objects which needed to be reverted). There may be still some of these "orphaned" duplicates around but not many.
There are probably several dozens of yet other duplicated nodes coming from the data - like the ones mentioned by adrukh.

When I have time, I will be continuing with the import of POIs.

dimka

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#66 2011-07-07 10:46:16

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

dimka wrote:

the import of the forest dataset has been completed.

Great!
Thank you for all your work!

The Wiki List of Israeli Forests contains 263 forests.
Is that correct?

talkat.

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#67 2011-07-07 16:51:50

T_Sade
New Member
From: Eilon
Registered: 2011-01-15
Posts: 7

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

HI All,
I have test the data in western gallil around EILON and i found that the names of the forest are wrong and not correct.
also some of the forest are no longer exist for the reason that there is new building near some of the civilization.
it look that the data is not update.

Tzur

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#68 2011-07-08 22:24:37

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

OK, so what do I do with an area which is part of a KKL relation, but is not actualy a forest?
Delete it from the relation? That would be a shame. Most of these areas are uncultivated land that can be described as natural:scrub (בתה או גריגה).

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#69 2011-07-09 08:32:54

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

T_Sade wrote:

HI All,
I have test the data in western gallil around EILON and i found that the names of the forest are wrong and not correct.
also some of the forest are no longer exist for the reason that there is new building near some of the civilization.
it look that the data is not update.

Tzur

Thank you, all this information is very important, as it allows us to estimate the actual quality of the KKL data.

You probably refer to Eilon (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1637969) and Hanita (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1637980) forests?
I see from the kkl:update_date tag that Eilon is pretty outdated (2005) but Hanita is not too much so (2010). Are these the only forests you meant?

I believe that we should not enforce any integrity of the KKL data, as our primary concern is to the up-do-dateness of the map.
But I would like nevertheless to have all such inconsistencies documented at least in this forum thread.

dimka

Last edited by dimka (2011-07-09 08:33:06)

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#70 2011-07-09 08:37:04

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

valleyofdawn wrote:

OK, so what do I do with an area which is part of a KKL relation, but is not actualy a forest?
Delete it from the relation? That would be a shame. Most of these areas are uncultivated land that can be described as natural:scrub (בתה או גריגה).

A possible solution:
split the areas into "forest" (keeping this in the original relation) and "scrub" (making a separate relation with a note such as "original boundary taken from KKL import, relation XXX."

dimka

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#71 2011-07-09 08:47:28

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

talkat wrote:
dimka wrote:

the import of the forest dataset has been completed.

Great!
Thank you for all your work!

The Wiki List of Israeli Forests contains 263 forests.
Is that correct?

talkat.

Thanks to all for their comments and active participation!

There should be 278 forests overall. I checked all the import again and found out that for some reason there appear 14 duplicate relations as follows:
1) 6 duplicates in http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/8611316. This is a situation created by bulk_upload script: each pair of duplicates uses its own ways, but the ways themselves reuse the same nodes. Deleting this appears to be tricky, but doable.
2) 4 duplicates times 2 = 8 duplicates in changesets http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/8602520 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/8602815 (in addition to the "originals" in http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/8602418). Here again the ways are duplicated (56 originals, 112 duplicates) but the nodes are not.

Furthermore, there are additional 29 forests in http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/8651910.

That makes 263+29-6-8=278, so at least all (big) problems seem to be accounted for.

dimka

Last edited by dimka (2011-07-09 08:49:20)

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#72 2011-07-10 15:42:03

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

dimka wrote:
talkat wrote:

The Wiki List of Israeli Forests contains 263 forests.

There should be 278 forests overall.

Ok, I've got the latest OSM data, and now there are 292 forests.
Meaning there are 14 duplicates?

talkat.

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#74 2011-07-14 11:27:25

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

The above 14 duplicates and associated ways have been deleted.

talkat - can you please regenerate the wiki list (probably should wait until tomorrow at least)?

dimka

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#75 2011-07-14 11:54:27

Re: Importing official data from Keren Kayemet LeIsrael

dimka wrote:

talkat - can you please regenerate the wiki list (probably should wait until tomorrow at least)?

Will do.
If not tomorrow, then by early next week.

talkat.

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