Can anybody confirm if some tags from roads can be moved into relation, especially to very long or highly splitted roads?
I just checked and for example in Germany there is a relation for every highway. In each direction there is one relation.
For example highway 9. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/20738
Additionally to that, there is a kind of master relation that includes all existing highways in one relation.
Could be beneficial to have that in Israel, too.
Currently its a bit messy to see and find all highways.
And as there is no extrem changes all the time for highways it could be a one time job that lasts for ever.
For example, adding all parts of some long motorway like 6, and adding all common tags like maxspeed and surface only once into relation, instead to all single parts.
This works out for some tags, for others it doesn't.
For example you could add surface and name to the relation, but you can't add the maxspeed as its changing for some chunks.
I think we should start with the relations for road 6 and then look how it behaves.
There is a difference in mapnik between a private and public parking.
The private parking is using a lighter blue for the P.
So a good renderer or a good app should be able to know when a parking is available for public and only then show it.
As yrtimiD stating, don't care about the renderer. As long you define it correctly its fine.
See here in Netanya :
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=32.32 … 8&layers=M
yrtimiD explained it perfectly:
I would recommend the following option:
If you know that some address is in some building - put node somewhere in it.
Beside that its better than nothing to do that but it is not a final status, just a temporary one:
If you know only first and last numbers (or even only one and direction) - you'd probably use interpolation.
A final OSM map should show the housenumbers of each and every building.
So starting with the first and last housenumber is a great step forward but needs guessing to define nodes for every building.
Even if you make a mistake with the housenumber nodes, nobody will throw stones on you.
I personally find it very easy with the right tools (OSMAND on Android) to fix those issues in a survey and make sure the entrance and housenumber is defined 100% correctly.
But it is a very big job.
It took me I think a year to add housenumbers by survey for Netanya.
A personal tip. Before you start tagging housenumbers add all buildings via Bing Satimages.
It is a lot easier to add housenumbers if a building is visible on a map.
my 5 cents:
I have added a lot of forests, farmland and meadow manually over the years.
They are added by satimages from yahoo [in old days ] and bing.
If you see anything wrong here specially with landuse data you are welcome to fix it.
The data from KKL have also mistakes here and there or are not up to date anymore.
In my opinion you are welcome to fix them if you see mistakes.
3) Correcting other people's edits
I agree with zstadler. But I don't see any reasons to not touch a way where you 100% know that its not going this way.
OSM lives from new and updated data. Whenever you see a mistake you can mark it on Openstreetmap.org or fix it by yourself.
PLEASE PLEASE don't start changing all motorways with new tags all over Israel (we had that in the past) ;-)
I think we should keep things separated:
Deleting anything without informing the other person or letting him first know about a "mistake" is done should never happen.
In this case we should ask Wikipod to improve communication ;-)
2. Military areas
As all of us know of the security problems we have, I would ask to keep the rule up: "No military elements in OSM Israel"
Beside, that its may not allowed by Israeli law, we should try not to tag things that could harm ourself like bunkers, bases etc.
No matter if the data is available at govmap, gmaps, waze etc. we can have our own rules.
We decided together back in those days that we don't want to map military elements and that those things should be deleted.
If we now decide differently Wikipod will probably not delete anymore. So don't blame him only.
OSM is a community project.
Beside that you can also look for ways that have no tag at all.
Alot of those dead roads exist in Israel:
Hello Israeli community,
After a long while Geofabrik is releasing a almost daily updated routing view that includes Israel.
Meaning you can see what roads in Israel are not connected properly to each other.
This is very important for any kind of routing with OSM based navigation software.
Specially the red dots needs urgent attention. Sometimes main highways in Israel got disconnected because of mistakes and this causes strange routing calculation :-)
In the past weeks after they released those frequent updated it I have done my homework and fixed hundreds of bugs.
Today I have got a status where we have almost no issues in Israel anymore.
So I'm asking everybody to check out this tool from time to time in their area and look for a issue that can be fixed.
It is only showing those that are not connected an in 99 % of the cases this is really a mistake.
So here the link to the OSM Inspector (worldwide routing) :
http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=ro … ted_minor5
Over all we have a great quality of ways in Israel within Openstreetmap.
We just need to keep it this way
its great that you found the way to discussion board and congratulations for your first posting.
I understand your 2 cents and as I have added a lot of farmland in the last days you probably mean myself by this posting
But there is one rule in Openstreetmap.
Never map for a renderer.
Meaning that I'm adding on the ground features that are really existing.
So I'm not adding them to be displayed in green, brown or anything else.
If you are using mapnik (the most common renderer that is also used on openstreetmap.org) as renderer your tracks could look clustered.
There are a lot better map renderer that could overcome this problem with a more contrast map with a easier to read map.
Mapnik is not very userfriendly. But this is the good thing about OSM. The data is free and everybody can decide by himself what elements are more important for him.
Can you tell us what kind of device with what kind of application you are using ? Maybe we can suggest you a better app?
Here is a example using Mapquest renderer showing the tracks in brown on a existing farmland and it is very good readable, because the renderer is not showing the farmland that dark:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=32.13 … 7&layers=Q
There is a small website showing the translation status of all OSM countries.
There is almost everything translated, but 19 countries are left that are not translated yet into Hebrew.
Maybe somebody could take of it?
its great to hear from somebody of the MAPI team at OSM.
As you stating there is a duplication of work here and there and it will be more and more in the future.
It is maybe not in the main interest at the moment for the Israeli government to donate data but it should be in their interest.
Openstreetmap maps are used worldwide and increasing very fast with the usage of hundreds of apps.
In compare to the data of MAPI the main usage of Openstreetmap data is for private people.
People like you and me that would like to see where they are while walking, biking, 4x4, looking for tourist attractions , GPS navigation etc.
OSM Data is free and this gives new possibilities.
It is proven in other countries like GB or DE that after a while the quality of OSM data will be more accurate than any other source.
In my opinion we reached that level at several Israeli areas already! Beside the multilanguage feature that makes OSM maps appear in different languages with a simple click.
So while some parts of the government complaining about the changes in Google Maps (palestine areas has been renamed to state of palestine) they are not even looking at Openstreetmap and realizing that Jerusalem is not even displayed because of a dispute.
Of course we need a lot in OSM and I think everybody in the OSM community has his prio.
My priority list of things would be looking like this:
Borders from Israel to Jordan, Libanon are build on Sat images but I expect a clear border definition that we could use.
Look for example on this strange roads and river : http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=32.06 … 5&layers=M
2. city, villages
A list of all cities, villages with geo data with the correct names could help find missing things in OSM.
3. Amount of roads incl. names
It would be beneficial to get the amount of streets for each city and village (updated monthly or yearly). This way we could compare and know what our goal is and search for missing things.
Of course it would be great to get the full list of streets per village and city. We would find our selfs where the streets need to be placed.
BTW: You are welcome to use the Openstreetmap layer in your application so the visitors could choose between your layers and the OSM layer.
So how do you think, you could benefit from OSM ?
I have done another run of street optimization over the weekend.
Every run, less and less issues...
But still not optimized on the open topics discussed before.
Beside that here some new issues I collected today:
רב רבי : Rav / Rabi / Rabbi ?
שביל : Shvil / Path / Trail ?
שמעון : Shimon / Simon ?
משעול : Alley?
What do you think of starting a wiki page for this topic and collect information how to define the translation of streets in Israel?
I can't do that as a foreigner with basic Hebrew skills and we really need it.
This is our current information rule for the naming of streets in Israel ( there is a lot of space for more details:
The "name" tag should be used as the primary name, in the language most common in the area. The "name" tag should contain the name in only one language. Use other "name:*" for other languages.
Use tag "name:he=..." for adding street names in Hebrew.
Use "name:en" for the English name (prefer the exact spelling as it is on the street sign!)
Use "name:ar" for the Arabic name
Use "name:ru" for the Russian name
Use "name:am" for the Amharic name
Add the full name written on the sign, don't include "rehov" or "street"
Do not use shortcuts, let the renderers do this.
of course you are right that there should be communication. We should always respect the work of others.
But I can't contact everybody because I'm changing a road junction that somebody created a while ago.
I'm not even checking who did the last edits and why. I'm simply doing my best to make the map more detailed and correct mistakes.
But I understand what you mean. I did a lot of very detailed work in Massada some years ago and it was deleted when I checked a while later.
Can you give us some example?
Did you contact the user regarding this edits?
I mean, do we talking about a re-movement of a city or change of a highway junction or what?
We are just starting to take care of street names.
I went over all street names and took care of missing once and made the street names more equal without loosing any kind of translation.
Now its time to get deeper into this and define rules that will make translation of street name easier and understandable for English speakers that benefit the most.
Here is the link to the newest streetnames of Israel.
They are splittet into 3 files as Google Drive is not able to work with too big files.
You are welcome to change names. Just be aware that this will really effect street names later on.
I have gone through the rest of thousands of streets and finished the review of more than 33.000 streets.
So there should be a very very minimum amount of non translated streets left now.
Finally this is done.
Maybe we can take a look on the result and have some translation guidelines?